Why the Killing of Christians in Nigeria Hasn't Stopped — And What You Can Do About It

We regularly talk about the situation that our persecuted brothers and sisters are going through in Nigeria. And it's not talked a lot about in the mainstream news, unfortunately. Even Christian commentators that I know, I don't know if we'll get into details on this, have said that it's either exaggerated or not happening.

The Escalating Killings of Christians in Nigeria

It certainly is happening. And that's one of the things that we care about. That's why you hear me advertise ETP Coffee on the podcast. It's why my wife and I give monthly to this organization that we're about to talk with the CEO of, Equipping the Persecuted.

And so the goal of this podcast is to give you another update. There are things that have changed since the last time we talked about the situation in Nigeria. And Judd Saul, who is the, I said CEO, I think president's probably the better term, of Equipping the Persecuted, who previously was a producer on films like Enemies Within the Church, who has been on the program a number of times, is here to talk with me about it.

So thank you, Judd, once again for being on the podcast and let us know what's going on. I know there are these massacres, Easter time, and I know Truth Nigeria is tracking all this stuff, but it doesn't sound like things are improving over there.

No, things are actually getting a little bit worse. It, to say that the Nigerian government is just complicit in the killings, it's more than that. I think they're actually helping partake in the killings.

Leading up to Easter, so I'll just give you a bit of a background here. So Truth Nigeria, when we started our project, we started getting a network of people across the country that were sending us intelligence reports, essentially saying, hey, we're seeing the Fulani ethnic militia, they're gathering over here, we're getting word they're going to attack this village around this time, and we started investigating and verifying it, and since we started, we started putting out terror alerts.

Now our organization has put out over 160 terror alerts in the last two years with 93 accuracy. And leading up to Easter, I went to Washington, D .C., I had a press conference and I said the Fulani ethnic militia are going to attack these communities, they're planning on attacking throughout Easter, and here's where they're going to do it, here's roughly when, here's where the terrorists are located.

I put this out publicly. The Nigerian government knew, the U .S. government knew, local villagers knew exactly where these attacks were going to happen, and I was right. They attacked in every community I said that they were going to attack in, leaving over 170 Christians dead over the week of Easter, Palm Sunday through Easter Sunday, about 170 Christians killed.

Oh, that's such a tragedy. It must be disheartening for you to be tracking these things, having the information, knowing the guys on the ground who are probably risking themselves to obtain this information and then to not see any movement on it.

Well, no, the Nigerian government knew, and nothing was done.

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying like, you're sort of passively watching this happen and you can't really do anything.

The most we can do as an organization is inform and try to let people know what's going on. Fortunately, there were some local villages that took our alerts very seriously and they thwarted off attacks, but not without losing lives.

But more people would have been killed had we not put out our terror alerts. And it is very frustrating. I mean, I was, you know, but we keep fighting, you know, we keep praying and hoping and letting the world know what's going on and maybe someday we can put a stop to this genocide.

Self-Defense, Weapons Restrictions, and Village Protection

Well, one of the things that you started, I know before all this even began and you were concerned about this issue, we had conversations about what about fighting back? You can provide food and spiritual assistance, but what about them actually taking the whatever resources that they can get for themselves or that can be provided for them and fighting.

Back?

And I know you you provide a walkie talkies. You've increased the intel and the communication. What's the actual picture, though, as far as that goes? I mean, were there firefights or there these terrorists coming into the town and they're being shot at by a Christian militia force?

Yeah, Christian, Christian, Christian villagers, Christian security teams, their self-defense is homemade shotguns. And if you have enough guys with a bunch of homemade shotguns, it deters attacks. But when you're facing, you know, 50 Thalani ethnic militia with AK -47s, you got 100 guys with shotguns.

Well, they don't want to get killed either. So there was a firefight. Few terrorists were killed, but a lot of Christians were killed in the process. And in a particular village area that, like I said, gathered, they took our warning seriously and they might they put up a line of self-defense.

And, you know, as an organization, I can't we can't give guns like legally. It is against the law for us to get involved with weaponry.

But legally, what we can do is simple training and they obtain guns at all is go to the gear. You go to the sporting goods store and you can get a gun.

The Christians and the citizens are only allowed to obtain homemade shotguns. Which are very.

But the terrorists, they can have.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

The terrorists are running around breaking Nigerian gun law every day with AK -47 strapped to their backs, riding around their motorcycles. They never get detained. They never get sent to prison for violating gun laws.

But if they see a Christian obtain an AK -47, if they see them obtain a non-homemade shotgun, they get arrested and they get their guns confiscated. Even village security team leaders have been arrested for defending their villages while they let the terrorists roam by.

Why is that?

What who's I mean, is it a follow the money thing?

Part of it's follow the money. The other part of it is follow the ideology. So for to update folks on what's going on in Nigeria is what's happened is, is Nigeria is now controlled by Islamists. It used to be 70 percent Christian.

Now it's 50 percent Christian, 50 percent Muslims, and the Muslims have the politics. They have control of the government. And the government is allowing the terrorists to kill Christian villagers, call it death by a thousand attacks.

It's not one massive force where they're just going and taking town after town. It's over years. We're going to take this town. We're going to take this territory. Then when they take over the territory, they have a Muslim governor and the Muslim governor implements Sharia law and then conquer, conquer, conquer.

And this is what Christians are facing.

So I know there were American soldiers who went to fight for Ukraine. I know I've heard that there's American soldiers who have gone to fight for the IDF and it's former American soldiers, right? They've.

I don't know if they're at a phase of life where they have the availability to do that and want to get behind a cause that they believe in. But what about in Nigeria? Is there any kind of opportunity?

I would assume there's no payment mechanism to compensate people from, you know, like French Foreign Legion type stuff is what I'm thinking. Like are there is there assistance that can be offered? Is that just totally off the table?

It's off the table because the Nigerian government will clap down, remove you from the country, arrest you and and throw you out. So we're doing everything we can walking right up to the line legally to help our persecuted brothers and sisters.

And there's a lot of guys, I get calls every day, I get emails every day, guys that want to come into Nigeria and play Rambo. But they don't understand the lay of the land, the ground, the politics of the situation and how the government works.

You know, there is a government infrastructure. It is just enforced against Christians. And if you go in to fight, you're then fighting against the Nigerian government. And they won't allow for that. The U .S. embassy won't be able to help you at all.

And they'll throw you in prison.

I saw a headline the other day wasn't from the Truth Nigeria. It was, I want to say, it was like on the Epoch Times or something. But it said Trump was about to clamp down on what's going on in Nigeria.

He wants to assist the Christians there. Is this true?

I'll explain the foreign policy situation so people understand what's going on. Our intelligence community, the U .S. military, that apparatus of our government is only focused on ISIS. The ISIS element that is in Nigeria.

Now you have two other main terrorist groups, which is Boko Haram and you have the Fulani Ethnic Militia. The Fulani Ethnic Militia are responsible for 80 of the killing of Christians in Nigeria. But the federal, the U .S. government is only looking at ISIS.

So to the average American that doesn't really know what's going on in the ground in Nigeria, they'll say, oh yeah, Trump's going to take care of the terrorists. They're only attacking one group, which is the ISIS element, which the Fulani and Boko Haram both hate.

So the U .S. government will get cooperation from Boko Haram. They'll get cooperation from the Fulani Ethnic Militia to go after ISIS. But the ones that are really killing Christians would be the Fulani Ethnic Militia and Boko Haram.

Because the ISIS tribe, they're called the Likuruwa tribe, they're not indigenous to Nigeria. They came, they're really foreign to Nigeria and they're wreaking havoc up north. So no one likes them. So our intelligence community and the hubris, you know, that they have will say, no, no, the Nigerian government's working with us to fight terrorists.

They don't like terrorists. They're giving us, they're giving us ISIS heads. But at the meantime, it does nothing to save the Christians in the middle belt of Nigeria.

Nigeria Accountability Act and U.S. Bureaucratic Resistance

I know that you've had these discussions in Washington with very important people. You've been informing them. Is there anything on the horizon that they think would change the policy stance of the United States?

Because I know it was upgraded, I think partially because of your efforts to, it is now something, I don't know what the category for it is, but it is, I know Ted Cruz actually worked on this, trying to look at Nigeria and categorize it as some kind of a terror alert, like this is where Christians are being killed.

We should notice that we should be concerned about it.

Yeah.

So, so they elevated Nigeria to the level of country of particular concern, which means there's terror activity going on. We need to be paying attention to this, need to be focusing on it. And some attention has been brought to it.

But Congressman Riley Moore and Congressman Chris Smith, they've submitted legislation called the Nigeria Accountability Act. And Ted Cruz has submitted the sister bill in the Senate to that. And what that would do, if that gets passed, that would allocate some resources, allocate more attention.

And in both of those bills that have been submitted are the language where they actually recognize the Fulani ethnic militia as a terror group. They recognize Boko Haram as a terror group. And that would allocate more resources.

Right now, what we're dealing with is Trump says to the State Department, yes, and the military, let's, you know, keep an eye on Nigeria, let's help Christians. But the problem is this, is that we still have a lot of leftists in the State Department where Trump will give a directive and the State Department will drag their feet for.

Months.

Trump will give a directive and say, I want to do this. We have people within the State Department, especially in the U .S. Embassy in Abuja, that will drag their feet and say, and try to not do what Trump says in any way they can by muddying the words, by muddying the field, or, you know, oh, yeah, we'll give a report on what Trump wants maybe once a month, and they'll just drag their feet on things.

That's what we're dealing with. We have the political appointees in the State Department, like Mark Walker and some others that are on our side that are listening to us and paying attention, but they're the political appointees with a massive leftist bureaucracy that they have to work with to try to get things done.

And there is a lot of hostility within our own government, even trying to say that there's a genocide in Nigeria. There are people that are fighting that narrative.

Denying the Genocide and the Role of the Nigerian Government Lobby

I'm amazed at some of the things that have been said online about this, even from more Christian adjacent or Christian places. I mean, we went over the Bob Amsterdam stuff with Tucker Carlson. It's just egregious.

I don't know if we even, we don't have to say the name of this guy, but I sent you an article that, I think someone sent it to me, but it was, it has your face on the front of it. And so you are used as, should I say prop?

You're used as a legitimacy for the author of the article. And I'm going to get a quote from this article about Nigeria. When American sentiment turns against Israel during moments of scandal, controversy, or political pressure, one of the most reliable defensive strategies is to redirect attention toward Islamic terror and the threat it poses to Christians.

Nigeria fits this purpose perfectly. And it also says the most plausible explanation for why Nigeria is suddenly in the news is not a moral awakening about dead Christians. It is a narrative utility. Let me summarize this particular article from someone that we both knew at one time is, and that you're being used in this article that's gone out there publicly from a Christian blog, is that the reason that there's any concern about Nigeria among Christians is because it's all, it's all about Israel.

It's things aren't going well with Israel. And so we have to come up with some kind of a distraction. There's no evidence brought in. It's just an assertion that's made.

There's, there's, there's no, there's no evidence to, to, to even back that up. There's no evidence that people are all of a sudden concerned about Nigeria because of Israel. No, people are concerned about Nigeria because finally, finally people have taken notice as to the genocide that's going on.

You can't ignore the dead bodies. You can't ignore the killings and the repeated attacks, especially on Christian holidays, the kidnapping of, of, and the slaughtering of pastors and their congregations on a repeated basis.

And partially people are knowing about this stuff because of the work we've done, especially with Truth Nigeria and our work in DC and spending resources to get the word out about what's actually happening.

People are paying attention now because, because our organization put the resources into document to get testimony.

You have the evidence. I mean, we've talked about on the podcast, we've seen Truth Nigeria and what they're putting out. You got people on the ground who are at, they are basically field reporters because they are eyes on the ground doing what no media organization over there is doing.

You're the only news source that I know of that's actually documenting this.

Because we send our guys to the attacks. They physically count the dead bodies. They get eyewitness reports, documentation on every attack. And it's, it's indisputable evidence. And we, and so we applied real ethical journalism to Truth Nigeria, which has given us credibility across the world.

And now a lot of people are reading our publication because they want to know what's going on.

This person is JD Hall and he's been unfortunately pretty sloppy on a number of things lately, but, but this to me takes the cake. Cause you know, why do this? Why, you know, I don't know how you feel about it, but I take offense to that kind of a narrative.

And I don't know why, I mean, I could gander at it, but why is it that you got guys like Tucker and JD, and I'm sure there's others. I'm not out there looking for these things, but trying to downplay what's happening in some way, or at least to downplay the concern.

Like, like the concern is somehow it's all connected to a distraction. It's a political move. I know you, you've been over there since before the latest sort of anti-Israel stuff before October 7th, you were over there doing stuff for years.

I've been going there since 2011.

And how long has Ted Cruz been talking about this? I mean, it's been.

Ted Cruz has been talking about it for years. Ted Cruz has been an ally. What the thing is, is you went with the Biden administration. You can't, they've tried, they couldn't get anything done. So they like, you know, so it's just wait until we get a chance to actually do something.

About it.

So you didn't hear anything about it during the Biden years, but you heard Ted Cruz talking about it during Trump's first administration. Trump went hard on Nigeria during his first term. So to say that, oh, this is all new and all of a sudden, no, Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz is in Texas, is one of the largest Nigerian diaspora populations in America.

He has a large base of Nigerian supporters in Texas, especially out of Houston. So he listens to them. They're his constituents. And so this isn't nothing new for Ted Cruz. This isn't nothing new for Congressman Chris Smith, who's been working this for over a decade.

I mean, there are there, and Frank Wolf, who is now a retired congressman. Frank Wolf has been working this for years and raising attention on this issue. So it's not a Jewish thing. It's not a October 7th distraction.

In fact, it really makes me angry that October 7th got so much attention when what happened on October 7th is happening in Nigeria every single day with no major news coverage.

They're Christians.

They're Christians. I mean, the pictures and the videos I get of the massacres and the aftermath every single day, John, every single week, this would be a major news story if it happened in America, if it happened in any Western country.

It would be top news. But because it's Christians in Nigeria, it doesn't get any coverage. Let me just explain this. OK, this didn't make major news. But last week, as part of these attacks, a pregnant woman who was eight months pregnant had her baby cut out of her.

They killed the baby in front of her, and then they killed her.

No news.

No one's talking about it. This happens on a regular basis and no news coverage.

Practical Aid, Ordo Amoris, and the Call to Support Persecuted Christians

Well, I want our audience to know, whoever's listening right now, I know there are many who already support what you're doing, to know that if you want to do something about this, there's really only one game in town.

It's equipping the persecuted. They're actually on the ground. They're documenting these things. They're also providing food and spiritual assistance, tactical training. If you want to see lives saved, this is the only way to have them saved.

They need body armor and walkie talkies and whatever defensive line that they can make. They need to know how to make it and how to do it. So equipping the persecuted is the only game in town over there doing this kind of thing.

And you can certainly give to them. My wife and I contribute every month to what they're doing because we believe in it. And if the roles were reversed, I would hope that Christians in other countries would help us out, Judd.

I think that's where it comes down. I'm an Ordo Amoris guy, and my neighbors, my family, the people in my community, that's my first—my attention is given there first. That's what the Lord tells me. But with any extra resources, first to the household of faith, right?

And we've got some severe, severe persecution. I don't give money to Israel. It's not because I—I should say charity groups in Israel or charity groups in Gaza or charity. It's not because I hate those people.

I want those people fed. I want them clothed. But I know what's happening here is getting ignored. And the needs are so great.

Part of this mission is, I realize, and I read the scriptures, part of our Galatians.

610, okay?

We are supposed to help those in the household of faith. We're supposed to help those in the household of faith that are in the most dire need. And in Nigeria, I can't think of a—more of a deserving group that needs our help than the persecuted Christians in Nigeria that are losing everything they have.

They're being slaughtered. They're being attacked. And they suffer from real oppression and real poverty. And, you know, I'll just say this, and this comes from the Tucker thing. I mean, I'll go on this rant real quick, is we have America first, America first.

We are focused on America first. And I get messages from idiots on the internet all the time going, we're working in Nigeria, America first. Well, you know, homeless veterans. You guys realize that—and I'll point this out again—that there are more charities for veterans than there are homeless veterans in the United States.

There is more resources for—like, what, California spent $10 billion to fix the homeless situation, but obviously bureaucracy didn't work and it didn't fail, but $10 billion went to the homeless in California.

Nigerians, Christians that are being slaughtered and attacked, after the survivors, the survivors of these attacks, live on less than $50, $60 a month, if they're lucky.

A month.

They're living in garbage bag tents, not by their own choosing, because they've been forced out of their homes and everything they've had has been taken from them. So, for very, very little that we could spare, sacrifice a latte a day, sacrifice, you know, going to McDonald's for a month, we

Money goes a long way to help feed, take care of a lot of people, persecuted brothers and sisters in Nigeria.

And if you don't go to McDonald's, it'll also help your health.

It'll help your health, too.

Yes.

Funding the Narrative and the Nigeria Accountability Act

We were talking a little before I hit record, and I told you, I wanted you to basically name some bad guys here. There's funding, you said, coming in. There's a lobbying group. You've seen an uptick in influencers online and also legacy media trying to downplay, deny what's happening in Nigeria.

And you think the Nigerian government is behind this, or you know that they are. I mean, talk to us about that. What's going on in Washington right now?

So, there is an uptick of people trying to counter the narrative about the Christian genocide, saying there's no genocide. It's just, oh, there's terrorists, Muslims and Christians are getting killed.

And this is all being funded by the Nigerian government itself, specifically through the Fulani national security advisor. His name's Rabadu. Rabadu orchestrated this. The Nigerian government spent $9 million on a Washington, D .C. lobbyist firm called DCI.

And DCI has been working influencers, working bloggers, trying to say that there is no genocide in Nigeria. And it's being funded by the Nigerian government for PR purposes. And this is how crazy it gets.

So, they bring in President Tanubu's wife, by the way, who claims she's a pastor, who's never pastored a church. Tanubu's a Muslim. She's a Christian, and she's supposedly a Christian pastor, but she's never pastored a day in her life.

This sounds very political.

Oh, very, very, very, very political. Well, she used to be a senator in Nigeria. So, she claims she's a pastor. So, DCI gets her into the National Prayer Breakfast. DCI is getting her speaking slots in Washington, D .C.

DCI also helped fund and pay for her entire trip for a journalist to go to Nigeria who only met with Fulani ethnic militia, said he had a wonderful time, wrote a story, put it in the New York Times. There's no genocide in Nigeria.

So, I'm working against a $9 million Nigerian government-paid lobby campaign. And there's others of us that have been fighting for this cause that are fighting this, but $9 million just got dropped into American media to post this narrative that there is no Christian genocide.

There's a bit of an incentive structure to going that direction.

So, let me ask you this.

Is this Republican, Democrat, both? New York Times sounds Democrat, but who are they targeting to dissuade from thinking this so that it can, I guess, keep pressure from being put on Washington to do something?

DCI is a Republican-leaning firm. They're known to have a lot of Republicans and ex-Republican congressmen. So, they are trying to target the conservative movement. They're trying to target Republican-leaning voters and that group.

So, the left is already on their side. The left already says there's no genocide. They're pro-Muslim. Whatever you name it. The left is already in their pocket. Who do they have to convince? They got to convince Republicans and the conservatives there's no genocide.

Well, if you don't like foreign governments, which I hear about all the time, right? None of us like foreign governments trying to influence our politics in the United States. But obviously, we're the biggest kid on the block.

So, everyone wants a piece of us. And that sort of just comes with the territory. They're going to figure out creative ways to do it, even if it's not direct. But this is one you've tracked. It's direct.

That, you know, just take it with a grain of salt. Do the homework. Look at the primary sources. Look at what Truth Nigeria is putting out there. And do you want people to write their congressmen? What would you like people to do other than just give to what you're doing?

Write your congressmen. Tell them to pass the Nigeria Accountability Act in Congress and Senate. Talk to your senator. Talk to your congressman. Let's pass this because this will actually allocate some resources.

And I'm talking a tiny drop in the bucket compared to what's being blown on Iran and what's going on in other places. This will actually do some good and save a lot of lives. So, Nigeria Accountability Act.

Tell your congressman, your senator to pass it. And tell them to intervene on behalf of persecuted Christians in Nigeria. Because the Nigerian government's definitely not doing it.

It sounds to me like they don't need to do anything militarily. Just put some pressure on them economically and say, hey, do your job.

A lot.

That would go a long way. That would go a long way. But we just need to ramp up the pressure on them. And to do that, make it happen. And we don't have to have boots on the ground. I mean, this problem could be solved with a little bit of willpower.

I mean, but all it takes is willpower. But I am sick and tired of seeing my brothers and sisters being slaughtered. Really getting tired of it.

I don't blame you for that. Well, I appreciate what you're doing and keep doing it. Obviously, keep talking about this. I'm really glad to see your profile increase as you've talked about it. And there are some people, some good people, it seems like, as far as they have good intentions.

That's what I mean by that, who are trying to bring attention to this. I even saw at Turning Point USA, they're starting to focus on this a little bit more, which is great. It's just have to, I guess, combat those who don't know what they're talking about.

Or if they do, they're lying and trying to downplay this or come up with some kind of motives for it. We need to stand against that.

For those that are carrying the false narrative and even denying and trying to downplay the issue, there's blood on your hands. You're doing the work of the devil by trying to downplay this issue. So I'm just, for those of you that are really going down this road and trying to like come up with some conspiracy theory, trying to associate it with Israel, there's blood on your hands.

Because you are falling for a lie and you are not standing up for truth.

Well, with that, thank you, Judd. Appreciate you coming by as always. Equippingthepersecuted .com is the website.

Equippingthepersecuted .org.

Sorry.

Dot org.

Yep, O-R-G.

Equippingthepersecuted .org and Truth Nigeria. I'm afraid now, is it dot com or dot org?

Truthnigeria .com.

I had it reversed.

Okay.

Check them out. Support if you have the finances to do it. Our brothers and sisters over in Nigeria. God bless, brother. Talk to you later.

Thank you, sir.