Striking a Nerve: The Death Penalty and Family Honor in Exodus 21

Welcome to The Rap Report with your host, Andrew Rapoport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Well welcome to another edition of The Rap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rapoport, the executive director of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community, of which this podcast is a proud member.

We are doing a crossover episode, continuing what we did the last episode with the man, the myth, the legend, one and only Pastor Dominic Grimaldi of Street Talk Theology.

Andrew, good to be with you. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Well, thanks for having me because we're both on each other's podcast and we're working through Exodus chapter 21. As we're going through this, this is a passage of scripture, Pastor Dom, that a lot of people might find difficult.

A lot of people might find it just something where, gee, how does this apply to us today? As we saw in the first 11 verses we've already looked at in Exodus 21, boy, is there a lot we've already been able to apply, especially to our current culture?

I think we're going to have even more so in the next section here. The next section for folks, if you want to take a Bible out, would be Exodus chapter 21. We're going to look primarily at verses 12. We'll see whether we can do this, but we're going to see if we can get all the way down to verse 19.

But you got two preachers and a text of scripture, so it may be very difficult because we might have lots to say. That's probably just me, right, Pastor Dom?

Not you.

You're a quiet one.

Yeah, I'm not as long-winded as Andrew. But I'll tell you one thing, and I'm not throwing a plug in for Andrew, but if you ever do, anybody ever needs a good exhortation for the church or a challenge, Andrew preached at my church, the church where I serve.

He's definitely Well, I know he's You available at all this year, Andrew? If somebody wants to have you, I mean, are you available or you're all booked up for.

The year?

Yeah, no, we have a lot of open dates. Even if you want to have me come back, because your wife's a good cook. I'm just saying, for the record, you know.

Yeah, Andrew works for food plus honorarium, no, I'm just kidding. You want me to read, Andrew?

Slavery, Capital Punishment, and the Context of Exodus 21

Yeah, so let's pick up where we left off. So we're in Exodus chapter 21. We are picking up in verse 12, is where we could pick up. But just, I don't know if we want to get some of the context of the

Yeah, I think we should.

So let's pick up in verse seven, just so we have some context where it deals with slavery issues that we had dealt with last episode.

Yeah, and these verses from last week, you see the God has just fairness about them, just really fair. I think this is an important study. Starting in verse seven, and if a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.

If she is displeasing in the eyes of a master who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He does not have authority to sell her to a foreign people because of his treachery.

To her.

And if he designates her for his son, he shall do to her according to the custom of daughters. And if he takes himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights. And if he will not do these three things for her, then he shall

Then she shall go out for nothing without payment or money, payment of money. And 12, he who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to debt. You want me to go down to what?

To 19.

To 19, Andrew?

Let's go down to 19.

19? Okay.

But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will point you a place to flee, to which you may flee. 14, however a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him by deceit, you shall take him even from my altar that he may die.

And he who strikes his father or mother shall surely be put to death. And he who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his hand, surely be put to death. And you want a 17, Andrew?

Let's go down to 19.

Okay.

And he who curses his father or mother shall surely be put to death. Again, 18, if a man contend with her, contend with each other, and one strikes the other with a stone and with a fist, then he does not die, but remains in bed.

If he gets up and walks outside on his staff, then he who struck him shall go unpunished. He shall only pay for the loss of his time, and he shall take care of him until he's completely.

Healed.

Thus is God's word.

Yeah.

So as we look at this, you know, we looked at, boy, the first few verses, seven to 11, you read, that really gets people to be upset when it talks about the slavery. And all I could say at this point, without reiterating everything, would be to go back and listen, whether you're listening on Street Talk Theology or The Wrap Report, just go back and re-listen to what we said, because we can't reiterate everything.

But this is dealing with issues of slavery. It's this really dealing with not just slavery, but laws about how we are to interact with one another. He started with slavery, different cases there. Now we're talking about capital punishment.

Pastor Dom, is capital punishment a big thing? Is that a debated thing in our country today?

No, not at all. Yeah, and I think, you know, I think a lot of things that are highly debated are biblical, like abortion. That's highly debated, right? You've got a lot of stuff like that that's, you know, biblical and it's highly debated and it comes against the word of God, but it is highly debated.

And I just believe that we go back to an eye for an eye, right? And I think that those are biblical mandates, even the fairness. I mean, when somebody is up for the death penalty, I think this was Andrew was talking about how we may go off topic a little bit.

But if somebody was, you know, up for the death penalty, the government gives them exhaustive measures to make sure that his decision is correctly done. So I think it's, I think under that democracy code, even we have here, I think, I think in all fairness, they got a long array of appeals to make sure that the right decision.

Came about.

And there are the reality, we have the issues today with death penalty where people get.

Wrong.

There are corrupt people who, for whatever purposes, maybe even in a sense of justice, do try to take the law into their own hands or try to force a decision. And so because of that, you know, we do have people that make legitimate cases against the death penalty.

But this here is talking about laws when you're taking someone's life. And it speaks kind of strongly because if we're going to take lightly the taking of another life, people are not going to care whether they exterminate someone's life from them if they can get away with it.

And that's a dangerous thing. If I was to come into Pastor Dom's house and take his computer home with me, he can call the police and there's some repercussion.

Right.

And I present a paper that, you know, an email that Pastor Dom said, hey, when you come to my house, I'll give you a computer.

All right.

I could defend myself, but if he kills me, well, I can't defend myself.

Right.

I'm dead. And so as we look at the scripture here, it's dealing with two men. They get into an argument and one dies. And there's going to be a couple of different things that we end up seeing in this passage.

But let's start in verse 12. It says, he who strucks a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death. Now, Pastor Dom, if I just read that verse and not the rest of it, would I be guilty of doing something wrong in the interpretation of scripture?

Yeah, I think you'd be. Well, maybe eisegesis would be a word we can use, but I'm sure our audience knows what that means. Yes, that's almost like a that's the heading of what's to be discussed afterwards.

So, yes, I mean, that's that's that's the premise. But there are some strictures that that goes along. You have to read. You have to continue reading to put that in its proper context, I think.

That's right.

The context matters. And so he gives us this one statement, but then he goes on further in these next few verses to explain that.

Right.

So if a man is put to death, that is the death penalty. There is a consequence to that because we are created in the image of God. And so when we take another person's life, there is a very serious consequence.

And quite frankly, Pastor Dom, I think you would agree with this when we see when you have a culture that takes crime serious, you actually have less crime. I think of Singapore where I mean, they're really strict with crimes.

You steal something and you're going to be beaten publicly. People don't do that so much over there because they know they're not going to get away with.

It.

We're here in America. It was interesting during covid when in California they just said, well, you know, we're not going to. If someone steals anything less than a thousand dollars, we're not going to do anything about it.

We're going to let it go. And all of a sudden there's been robbery all over the place. People knew, oh, I can get away with a thousand dollars.

OK.

Now, I have to admit, I did like the one guy at the convenience store that, you know, everything was a thousand dollars with a 99 percent discount at the cashier. I was a smart individual.

Yeah.

So, so, I mean, when we look at the context here, Pastor Dom, is God stating or putting a higher, maybe accountability or consequence when we take a human's life?

Yeah, he is. And again, there's there's some, you know, I guess if I'm reading the context and looking at some of my criminal background, one seems to be manslaughter, one seems to be murder in 13 and 14.

And so God actually, you know, it's 13 is an interesting verse, Andrew, and I know that I'm not trying to go off topic, but I'm trying to stay in the context with verse 13 says, but if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will point you a place that he may flee.

Um, so that kind of begs to be a little explaining. I mean, so if he if he didn't, if he wasn't first, if he wasn't out looking for him, but he happens to come across his path would not be a premeditated murder, but it would still be, I guess, manslaughter.

Right.

In that case.

Yeah.

And this is what we think of as first, second degree murder.

Right.

You have these different views of if it just happened, you know, something happens and manslaughter wasn't planned. You got in a car accident, someone dies where there's a difference between that and where you've planned it out.

You know, so you have premeditation.

Correct.

And, and I, the thing I find very interesting in verse 13 is the way it says, it says, but if he did not lay in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand. So who, whose hand is he is behind this?

Who's the one orchestrating this? The idea that you see here is you have a person who's lying in wait, and if he's lying in wait, he's premeditated, as Pastor Dom said, wants to kill the person, death penalty.

But if he wasn't lying in wait, it wasn't premeditated, but God, it seems like is the orchestra, but God let him fall into his hand. Then I will appoint a place for which he may flee. And, and this place we see later in Leviticus is the city's refuge.

Anytime you see, but God, that's, that's pretty interesting, right? But God who is rich in debt, right? I mean, that's it. When I seen that, I said to myself, man, how do we get around that on, on the, on the show?

You know, cause that is a tough, cause anytime you see, but God is, but God and praise God for, but God.

Yeah.

Because this is saying the distinction here is one, you have a person who is looking to kill another person. And then this one, it's, it wasn't that the person was looking premeditated to, to get this person, something happened that we now put in God's providence.

So going back just for a second, if I can turn on my past criminal life, that will be my perfect alibi, but God told me, right. I'm saying, I'm only kidding, but, but that is a huge, that is a huge part of the scripture.

And then obviously God does find a place for him to go on the lamb, so to speak.

That's right.

And, and this is an interesting provision that you have in Leviticus where you have this city of refuge, right?

Exodus.

Sorry. If I, if I got it wrong.

We're still on, we're going back and forth on Leviticus and Exodus, right?

Yeah.

So, but a city of refuge is a place where if someone accidentally kills someone, they could flee to a city of refuge so that the family of the person who, who died can't, cannot take, can't, can't kill them.

Can't, can't take justice into their own hands if they stay in the city of refuge. Now, if they leave the city of refuge, then the, then the family member can take his life up until the death of the, the high priest.

And then he's, he is free to go. But this is, as pastor Dom, you were mentioning, this is this provision that God has to protect people who may have innocently killed someone, not purposely. And, and there's some provision that they can still live, but they have to live in this city of refuge.

And the idea there is, is that this is within God's providence that he allowed this to happen, which is something I really think is important for us to, to understand. Because as you were bringing up pastor Dom, God is in control of everything.

So many of the people feel like, well, it's unfair. Let's, let's deal with the issue that's in our day and age now. The idea of immigration. Should America just be open to everybody who comes in just because in their country, their country doesn't have the freedoms and the economy that we have here.

Well, we would say, but God, right? God had them born in that culture for whatever reason, God wanted them there just because their culture is harder than our culture. Doesn't mean that God wants them here.

It means that we obey the rules, the laws of a land.

And it's clear in scripture that borders are very, very, very biblical. It's clear borders are very biblical. And you know, it's just, it is what it is. I mean, I don't understand why. And Andrew, here's the thing, talk about fairness.

There is a way that you can legally become a citizen in this country. There are ways that you can do that.

You just crossed the border, right?

No, you don't just.

No, I saw a video of this woman who was really upset. Her husband had been in the country illegally. He got deported and she is trying to learn how to immigrate to his country to be with him. And it's interesting because she's sitting there talking about the paperwork she needs to get and the different rules she needs to learn.

And it's like, oh, so you do understand immigration. But we have to rely on God's sovereignty in all matters. Even if someone is accidentally killed between two people that are striking one another. Maybe, you know, Pastor Dom just gave me a little bit of a push and didn't plan.

Things like this does happen where you push someone, but they fall over and they hit their head on the ground and they die. Well, that we mark up as God's providence because it happened, right? We don't say God caused it and made it happen.

But at the same point, we recognize that this did happen. And if that happens, we can't sit here and say, well, what was me? This should never have happened to me. It happened. It was part of what God, God's providence.

See, the problem, here's the problem with people don't understand. If the root, if the root is bad, things are going to happen. And if you illegally come over and yes, somebody gets in a crossfire. Nobody wants to see that happen.

Nobody wants anybody innocent to be hurt. I know Andrew doesn't. I don't. But the problem is if that crime was not committed, then this would have never happened. So what people do is they look at the, they look at the, this is an army term.

They look at the fog of war, so to speak, instead of looking at the root of the problem, the root of the problem. If there was no crime committed, then sometimes there's friendly fire and things. But if there was no crime committed, then these things would have never happened.

Does that make sense? They always look at what happens after the fact. These people are dealing with criminals, sometimes drug dealers, sometimes not, but still illegally coming over. And if something happens, an altercation, if somebody gets injured or something, you care for that individual too.

But at the end of the day, if the person did not commit a crime, these things could have never happened.

Correct.

And, and we, but we always mark it up as God's providence. So I would say this, if, if something happens.

Right. I'm just talking about the culture, the way it's portrayed on the news, Andrew. It's always portrayed, not about the criminal intent. It's always portrayed about the fog of war. What happens in the, because of that event, but nobody mentions about the, the reason that that stuff happened.

But even in a fog of war, we have to recognize that God's sovereign.

Right.

So I mean, if you don't believe, the unbeliever is not going to believe that.

Right.

Yeah.

And that, but we should, well, whether they believe it or not, it's true, but it is something that can also be assuring. People don't think of it this way, but why, why did Moses write it the way he did?

Well, I can also see this as someone who, if you, if someone accidentally kills another person, they're going to feel very bad about that. And if that happens, I can very easily see that people would say, well, you know, we want to be able to recognize that this was God's providence.

We shouldn't be beating ourselves up over it. I mean, we got to deal with the guilt and recognize it's wrong, but there's people that can't move on from, from accidents that happen in their life. And, and so I, I happen to see in this also a little bit of a, a grace from God in the person who actually killed another person here, but because it's being said that this is, was done by accident, there's a little bit of grace, even in that situation, that it's God who let that happen.

So, so there's a little bit of a, for the person who is, has that survivor's guilt, that there's a little comfort.

Yeah, that's a good point. It's just a, that's a, you, you could tell what passage like this is really a, a good passage to exegete as you're doing. We're trying to do anyway, but, but that, but God in there leaves a lot of room for, is, you know, seeing how this happened.

And then, and even like we've heard the term better heads prevail, right? You know, so you get the guy, you know, kill the guy by accident. So he's there, the family is in a rage, maybe. So this is a point where maybe people can think things out a little bit and hopefully come to the right, right conclusion, you know?

Yeah.

And there's a contrast, right? That we see between verse 13 and 14, because.

Oh yeah.

Verse 14 is a no brainer, right?

Yeah.

So you have the overarching thing. Verse 12, a man strikes someone. He shall surely be put to death. But then we have verse 13. Well, there's an accidental, it's not primitive. Well, first 14 is, it says, if however, the man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor so that he, so as to kill him by deceit, you shall take him even from my altar that he may die.

So the interesting thing that is described here is that you have a person who is planning it. He's doing it, but I find it interesting. It says, even if he did it by deceit. Now I find that interesting because when you tie that with the mention of an altar, I get the picture that Moses is drawing here, that you have someone that's trying to sound spiritual.

Look, he's at the altar of God. He's at the tabernacle, the temple. He is worshiping, but he was deceitful in the way he went about it. Maybe he's in covering it up or the way he conducted himself. He planned it all along, but made it look like an accident.

God is saying, even if the guy is at the altar, he's in the temple, you take him out of that place and you put him to death.

Yeah.

Remember Joab? Joab, I think Joab committed premeditated murder or got caught in some type of conspiracy. He was a, that's a guy, I don't know about Joab. I mean, he was being hanging out with Joab. You can, he's a guy that was sanctified in spots.

But when he did, I think he went to the horns of the altar. Remember he was holding on to them? They drug him right out of there. Remember? And yeah, so every time I see that, I think about Joab.

Well, and so what we see here is, yes, the Bible does have a provision for capital punishment, but within that provision, we see distinction. We see the distinction between those who premeditate and those who don't.

And you can see the difference with those that are acting presumptuously. Well, it doesn't, when you do that and you're deceitful in the way you do it, death. But there's this means of grace, even for those who accidentally kill someone, that they can live out their life without fear of repercussion by going to the city of refuge.

That they don't have to always be looking over their shoulder.

Andrew, now they're allowed to stay there till the death of the high priest, right?

Correct.

Then they can go free.

Correct.

So is that, that's a time limit, obviously. So if they go free, you would, suppose the family still has a grudge. I mean, will they still have a grudge after that or?

Well, they're supposed to, they're supposed to let that go at that point.

Okay.

Right now, if this is the reality, if the family was to go after someone. You have the death of the high priest and they go after the person after the death of the high priest. Now they're the ones who can be guilty.

Yeah.

And I did misspeak. So I think I said Leviticus, but the city of refuge is mentioned in Numbers chapter 35. And so I'll encourage you guys to go and read that. There's also some laws in Deuteronomy chapter 19.

And so those are two areas you can go and look to get more understanding of the city of refuge.

Yep.

So, you know, why don't we pick this up where there's a lot more in this that we will pick up after this, because there's a lot more to look forward to, as far as what happens when someone strikes their father or mother.

And that's something that becomes really interesting. So let's, let's pick that up shortly. Well, if you want to get yourself a good, healthy body, if you're like Pastor Dom over here, and, you know, he, he hasn't been taking good care of his health.

You know, he just, he, he, he decided, you know, I want to, I want to spend my formidable years in prison cells where they, where they don't really care if I'm taking care of health wise, but he's trying to make up for it now.

And so there's some things that Pastor Dom realizes he's got to do to keep himself healthy. And one of the most important things is to make sure he gets a good night of sleep.

That means I need a good pillow.

You need a good pillow. And clearly, clearly, if you take a look at Pastor Dom or myself, you realize both of us did not believe in our younger years that, you know, we needed to have beauty sleep. Because clearly we ignored a lot of that beauty sleep.

Speak for yourself, Andrew.

You were a good looking guy in your youth. I'll grant you. But if you, if you wanted to get, and I'm being really serious, a good day of sleep is one of the most important things that you could do for your health.

It is amazing how the human body regenerates and the way God designed us to get a good night of sleep is really, really important. And so I want to encourage you to consider one of the things you could do for your sleep is to get a good pillow.

The, my pillows are just fabulous in helping me get a good night of sleep. They could do the same for you. They have these great comfortable sheets. I love their towels. I absolutely love their, that I like an absorbent towel, but I don't like heavy towels.

And there's a, their towels are really good balance. If you want to go get yourself good sleeping products, whether they're mattress topper is absolutely phenomenal. Um, I, I have that, but they have slippers, they have robes, they have sheets, they have towels.

They got a whole bunch of great products that I actually use. So I don't recommend them if I haven't used them. And so you can get all those products.

I know that for a fact, because when Andrew came and stay in my house, he had his own pillow with him who packs a pillow with them when they come and stay by your house as a guest, only Andrew Rappaport.

No, not in just Andrew Rappaport, because when I travel with Aaron Brewster, he has his own, my pillow that he brings as well. So I look, when I went to Israel and Philippines and these different places where I'm limited on how much to pack, I'd leave some clothes behind, but I don't leave my, my pillow behind.

So if you want to get yourself a great, my pillow, go to mypillow .com, use the promo code SFE, that stands for striving for eternity. That lets them know that you heard about them from us and that keeps them supporting us, which we greatly appreciate.

So thank you, my pillow for supporting that. Now, if you want to really go out of your way and, and get yourself good, healthy products, you, you, you want to, Oh, you know, really decide, Hey, I'm going to stay healthy.

You don't want to grow up to be, you know, like pastor Dom when you're in your, in your, you know, eighties, like he is.

I'm not 80 years old.

So you may want to say, you know, I, I need to do something about my health. And if that's you, I want to give you some, some things that, well, it's a little bit crazy. I know, but there's a lot of benefit to getting yourself both heat and cold therapy and heat therapy.

People go, well, okay, I can do a sauna and that is what you could do. You get a good sauna, get in there. If you, if you get a sauna that can get above 140 degrees, the infrareds can only get 140 degrees, but get yourself a good sauna, get in there seven days a week for an hour.

If it's under, if it can only get up to like the infrareds up to 140, but if you can get it up to 175, stay in there five days a week for, you know, like 20 minutes, you get the same benefit. And what the, what heat therapy does is it will help within your body to get your blood circulating.

Well, it will generate, um, basically when we look at the mitochondria, it's going to generate what's called black, uh, brown fat. It helps create more mitochondria on the other extreme is cold therapy does the same thing.

And if you want to do that, I'm going to give you two different links. You can go to both that sponsor the show. You can go to striving for eternity .org slash plunge, striving for attorney .org slash plunge.

You can get saunas and cold plunges. I have their cold plunge. That's what, how I start my day five minutes, 45 degree water every morning. That's how I start today. I know you're saying that's crazy.

It is the most refreshing thing I do all day. And after that, no matter what happens, I've already started doing the hardest thing all day, but it is great for the health. Now it constricts the blood vessels.

So the two work well together if you do that, but the cold plunge is great. They also have saunas. Now their products are really good. I have found a cheaper solution because people say to me, Andrew, I just can't spend the money for that.

Well, I have a sauna from the pod company. So if you go to striving for eternity .org slash pod, you can get their saunas or cold plunges. Their cold plunges are a lot cheaper, still well-made. I haven't used their cold plunge, but I have their sauna.

So I want to encourage you guys, get healthy this year, make that your goal so that when you're 90 years old, you don't look like Dom looks today. I mean, he said he's not even 80, but he looks like he's got to be at least a hundred.

I'm just saying.

That means if I had the cold plunge, I'd look what, 60?

Yeah.

You might, you know, if you started cold plunging and doing saunas, you might look better. You know, cold plunges.

I live, I live in Arizona. Cold plunges is not a bad idea.

So folks, if you want to help support this show, a great way to do it is to support our sponsors. And we are grateful for that. So Pastor Dom, let's pick up where we left off and we're in Exodus chapter 21 as we're going through.

We looked at, last time we spoke about this, we looked at verses 12 to 14. I know, two preachers and we didn't get very far. It's a shocker. But as we look at what we want to try to pick up at this point now, let's have, if you could read verses 15 to 19 of Exodus 21, so we could see what we're dealing with here.

And just for context, we're dealing with the death penalty in verses 12 to 14, where the idea of someone who is purposely kills someone versus accidentally. And now he's going to expand this a little more as verse 12 is like this over, kind of overarching thing, right?

You kill a person, you deserve death. But then he starts making different ways of dealing with this. Maybe you did it accidentally. Maybe you did it purposely. And now we get into some other areas. So why don't we pick up in verse 15 and read down to 19.

He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his hand shall be put to.

Death.

And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. And if man contend with each other and one strikes the other with a stone with his fist and he does not die but remains in bed, if he gets up and walks around outside on his staff, then he who struck him shall go unpunished.