Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson and the True Jesus

So what is your personal belief when it comes to the resurrection? What do you think have. Do you have a belief or do you just try to? Interpret the text and try to see what is the message.

The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus as a Historical Question

Well, this could certainly be interesting. Welcome to the program. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today when I thank you so much for joining me.

So I believe it was yesterday when I started seeing stuff about this that some guy had presented the gospel at least talked about the bodily resurrection of Jesus to Joe Rogan. Now, I'm I don't really swim in those circles.

I know Joe Rogan is a big name in the podcast world. And in fact, I think he may have the biggest audience of any podcast. I could be wrong in that but I think he's I think he may have the largest. So millions and millions of people follow him.

Of course, he made some news here in the recent election cycle because he came out in support of Donald Trump. But he's got an enormous following and I do know that Joe Rogan is an unbeliever. He's not a Christian.

I've never watched his podcast like not ever not not a single time. I've never seen an entire program. I've just seen a few snippets from a few and I do mean like count them on one hand few programs, but I did catch a little bit of this one and Christians are understandably so very excited about this that Apparently finally like a real Christian made it on to the Joe Rogan podcast and actually talked about the Real Jesus and Indeed that does appear to be what has happened.

So now this Christian is a man named Wesley Huff. I Had never heard of Wesley Huff until about the about 24 hours ago as of this recording, but From what I can tell I mean just briefly he he seems to he seems to be a real believer.

He is a Christian apologist who lives up in Canada and Now in fairness, I don't know much about him. So I'm not like giving a blanket endorsement or anything like that I just don't know enough one way or the other.

I've been told by a friend of mine that he does hold to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, which That's that's a good sign. So he does appear to be a genuine believer what church he's a part of.

I don't I don't know those details, but I do want to talk about this a little bit because several things kind of several biblical truths here come colliding in this podcast this interview that Joe Rogan did with Wesley Huff and Towards the end of this video.

I'm also going to talk a little bit about Jordan Peterson Because Jordan Peterson's name was raised in this interview as well. And so I want to help us kind of walk through some things and bring out some biblical truths here so I'm gonna play a few clips here from this interview and here is the first one and From time to time I won't interrupt and we'll talk about it.

So away we go.

Because of this claim that they say they saw Jesus resurrected. Like there's something different that goes on there that they're like, this is a miracle right. Dead people don't usually rise from the dead.

So what is your personal belief when it comes to the resurrection? What do you think have. Do you have a belief or do you just try to? Interpret the text and try to see what is the message?

Now, I'm really glad that Joe asked that question because this gets down to the theological brass tacks. Does it not so Liberal theologians, they would say oh the Bible is a wonderful book. Yes, and we believe the Bible but it's not really important.

You see whether or not the stories that are found in the Bible actually happened. What's important you see is this? Moralistic tale this morality tale that they Represent to us today. So in other words, it doesn't really matter if Adam and Eve were actual historical people it doesn't really matter if Noah's Ark was a real thing and God really flooded the earth.

That's not really what matters it does. And it's not even really all that important whether Jesus was born of a virgin or it's not important if Jesus was actually bodily raised from the dead. That's not really the point of these stories the point is this morality tale that we can Somehow divine from from these Stories and we learn some life lesson About these things.

So the historicity is not what's important. It's just some morality tale kind of like a Just a really special version of Aesop's fables that kind of thing. I'm really glad that Joe asked this question.

I'm also really glad that he asked this question to someone who is Biblically and theologically equipped to answer it because it absolutely does matter Whether or not Jesus was bodily raised from the dead.

Well, I think so as a historian. I do think it is a historical question. You have a guy who objectively lived.

He.

Objectively died and then Individuals close to his inner circle claim that they see him not dead. Right again.

This is a highly unusual activity highly unusual, right so. But it's hard when you're dealing with illiterate populations you're dealing with thousands of years of time you're dealing with an oral tradition and Then you have us sitting here talking about it.

Mm-hmm in 2024 trying to figure it at the end of 2024. Trying to figure this out literally the end. Yeah last couple days it's um. It's very difficult for anybody who thinks of themselves as an intelligent person who's secular to even Entertain the possibility that someone died and come back to life.

Joe is right from a purely secular.

Materialistic worldview then the resurrection of Jesus Christ does present a bit of a dilemma does it not. Because if Jesus was Bodily raised from the dead. I mean that doesn't happen. Okay, you this is the resurrection of Jesus is not a resuscitation.

It's not like Jesus fell through the ice of a frozen lake in it and his you know He quit breathing for five minutes and they were able to revive him. No, he was he was bodily dead laid in the tomb and on the third day Walked out of the tomb.

Yeah, so Joe is right that doesn't happen. People don't come back to life after having been dead for multiple days. It does not happen. So if Jesus was raised from the dead Then he was who he claimed to be God in human flesh and if he is God in human flesh Then he has a claim on our lives.

More on that in just a moment.

And I get that. But we've already talked about the fact that we don't think that the only thing that exists is matter in motion. We as in you and I write like we believe that there's something else going on in this world.

That's a little bit crazy. There's something and and that to I think exclude that I think excludes something. That that you're kind of putting blinders on for and you do have. I mean you're right in terms of all of the these ancient conventions and the ways that things were spread around and but the Gospels are written in the lifetime of the eyewitnesses and They're written in this period of time where you have groups of individuals who could have fact-checked those things.

Wes here is right. The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is the most well attested event in all of ancient history and the Bible is the most well attested work of literature in all of Ancient history.

Nothing else even comes close. The Bible is literally light years ahead of every other work of ancient literature in its manuscript. Attestation. Nothing yet that in the there is no close second like at all.

You think of maybe like the Iliad and the Odyssey that was that were written these poems that were written by the Greek poet Homer and I think we have like 10 or 12 manuscripts of the Iliad and the Odyssey and the oldest manuscripts are Hundreds of years after the original was written.

You compare that if it's not close to a thousand years. You compare that to the New Testament alone. We have thousands of manuscripts of the New Testament. Some of these manuscripts go back to within a few decades of The life of Christ and you put these manuscripts together and they match perfectly.

I mean, you know, of course, there's little variants in here and there but you you put them together and you compare them and then you can get back to the original what the originals were and so when you You can have 100 confidence that what you are holding in your hand as the Bible provided that you are looking at a Legitimate translation not the message or something like that, but it's a real translation this this is the Word of God and this we can get back to the originals and and These events.

Yes, you had eyewitnesses of the resurrection when these manuscripts were Were being circulated and so yes, the bodily resurrection of Christ is like ironclad when it comes to its historical evidence.

So a fact check someone coming back from the dead. Well, if you how many people saw his body, right?

Well, Paul says that 400 people saw him all at once. For when people saw the crucifixion. No saw the resurrect resurrected Jesus. Yeah, first Corinthians 15 Paul says that Jesus appeared to the disciples and then he appeared to 400 people all at once.

So I want to pause here. I'm not sure why he said 400. And he said this a couple of different times not only this point in the interview. But also a few minutes later in the interview. He reiterated it.

I'm not sure why I said 400. But let's look at this real quickly. First Corinthians 15 beginning in verse 3. And by the way, this is probably like an early Statement of faith of the church the the early church.

So this of course first Corinthians 15 written by the Apostle Paul to the church of Corinth. Paul says beginning verse 3 for I delivered to you as a first importance what I also Received. That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

That he was buried that he was raised on the third day According to the scriptures and that he appeared to Cephas then to the twelve. After that he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time. Most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep.

So.

Paul I don't know why I kept saying 400. I mean, it's not a big deal, but Jesus appeared to 500 brothers at one time and notice what Paul says to he says most of whom remain until now. But some have fallen asleep.

So by the time when Paul wrote this most of those 500 people Were still alive. Some died, you know group of 500 you would imagine there was some probably some you know. Some of those folks were old and they they died.

So this is very very early material. Paul wrote this wrote first Corinthians about the year ad 53 early ad 50s and so this is early material this goes back to just within a couple of decades of the life death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So yeah, most of those were still alive. They were still around. So this is incredible attestation to the bodily resurrection of Jesus I.

Mean if we read the Gospel of Luke in the Gospel of or the Gospel of Luke and Acts so same author wrote these both documents. He says that Jesus was walking around teaching them for 40 days after he was resurrected from the dead and so these are written within a time period when you have people who would have seen Jesus's ministry who were there say it's something like the feeding of the 5 ,000 who could have been able to verify or Debunk some of these things that are being said and you go from a bunch of scared guys.

Who because Jesus wasn't the only? Messianic figure who arose and claimed to be the Messiah, right? There were a number of Individuals both prior to and after Jesus, but they die and the movement dies with them.

I'm actually glad that Wes brought that up because he's exactly right. Jesus was not The first man claiming to be the promised Messiah and he was certainly not the first Religious leader to come down the pike and cause a stir in fact.

Such a thing is even referenced in Acts chapter 5. You remember in Acts 5 Peter and the Apostles had been warned by the Pharisees not to preach in the name of Jesus. But they had to obey God rather than man.

So they continued to preach in the name of Christ. You know, they were thrown into prison and God delivered them out of prison. So really causing a stir in Jerusalem and so the Pharisees got together to have a little meeting to have a little powwow to try to decide what to do.

About.

These meddlesome Christians. And Gamaliel stands up. They he stands up. Acts chapter 5. Let's look at this real quickly. And He Gamaliel said to them men of Israel take care. What you propose to do with these men.

For some time ago Thutis rose up claiming to be somebody and a group of about 400 men joined up with him. In fact, I wonder. Maybe that's why maybe Wes got his Addresses cross maybe this is where he's getting the 400.

I don't know but anyway, no big deal. But he was killed and all who were following him were dispersed and came to nothing. After this man Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census drew away some people after him.

He too perished and all those who were following him were scattered.

So.

Even the Pharisee Gamaliel mentioned two other religious leaders Judas the Galilean and in Thutis. Both of them were basically kind of religious flashes in the pans. They came up and they caused a little stir and Gad had a little following to gather and followed him for a little while but then they They died and their followers just scattered.

Not Jesus Not Jesus. Jesus did die but he was raised from the dead and His followers did not scatter. No quite the opposite the followers of Jesus many of them gave their lives for their faith in Christ and Many followers of Jesus have been giving their lives for Christ ever since him for the last 2 ,000 years continues to this day, so you'd be hard-pressed to find the the little clan of Thutis or Judas the Galilean.

I don't see a following of those guys anymore. Well, we definitely do still have followers of Christ. Do we not?

Do you think it's possible that he didn't die and do you think it's possible that they thought he was dead because that does happen. There was actually a case very recently where a guy was about to be harvested for organs the they thought he was dead and This guy started moving again and came back to life.

It's very very bizarre case because His family had been told that he was going to be harvested for organs. They were.

Preparing for that. Okay. So here Joe Rogan asks Wesley if it's possible that Jesus didn't actually die on the cross. People just thought he was dead and they took him off the cross and and buried him and then he came out.

Came.

Now you may I'm laughing you may laugh, but this is actually a thing this this is harkens back to Theory known as the swoon theory and the swoon theory was first forwarded by a guy named Heinrich Paulus in 1828.

The swoon theory so it's been around for a couple hundred years now almost. But it basically holds that Jesus did not die on the cross. He was nailed to the cross. He was crucified, but he didn't actually die.

He just.

Swooned.

He passed out and people thought he was dead, but he wasn't actually dead so they took him off the cross. He was just kind of like in a you know coma or something. And so they buried him and then later in the in the cool night air.

That kind of revived him and he woke up and came to his senses and looked around said like man I got to get out of here. And walked out of the tomb. Absurd right? Yeah, it is absurd and Wes for time's sake I won't.

Wes handles this very ably. For one thing the Romans were experts at crucifixion this and they knew what they were doing. They knew how to kill people and. And let's just say for kicks and giggles that by some oddity Jesus Would just kind of passed out for a while on the cross a Roman soldier thrust a spear into his side and blood and water gushed out so.

No, Jesus was. Was dead. This is no miracle max kind of dead from the princess bride you aficionados. Jesus Physically died, but it shows you the links to which some people will go because dear friends as I said earlier the evidence for the bodily resurrection of Jesus is.

So.

Overwhelming and we'll see even more evidence here in just a second. It is so Overwhelming that people will come up with the most cockamamie Stories and ideas and theories to try to get around it. Because if Jesus was bodily raised from the dead Then he was and is who he claimed to be God in human flesh and if he is God in human flesh Then he has a claim on your life and mine and Joe Rogan's in.

Everyone's who wasn't they got crucified upside down Peter. Why was it because like regular crucifixion wasn't good enough for him? Well, what was he. What didn't deserve it. Because Christ had gone through it.

Well.

So the story is that they say we're gonna crucify you and he says it's like too big of an honor to die like my Lord and they say well we can fix that.

Shut your mouth buddy. Listen. So Wes here talks about some of the early Christians. And of course he names Peter who went to their deaths for their faith in Christ. Tradition holds that Peter was crucified upside down.

The Bible doesn't actually say that but there's some pretty reliable Early tradition that indicates that that is likely what happened. Of course, we know Paul gave his life for the gospel. We know that Stephen in Acts chapter 7 gave his life for the gospel.

James gave his life for the gospel and given that these are.

Eyewitnesses.

That is another level of Credibility to put it mildly to support the bodily resurrection of Christ. These were First-person eyewitnesses of the risen Lord Jesus. Why would they go to their deaths? For something that they knew not to be true.

Men don't do that okay, here's here's a Something to kind of tuck away. This is this is a truth to keep in mind. Some men women whatever men in general sense in a human sense some men Will die for something That may not actually be true.

But they'll die for it as long as they think it is true. Okay, some men will die for something that they believe to be true. Even if in reality, it's not case in point. 9 -11. The men who flew airplanes into the World Trade Towers.

They were sincere, but they were sincerely wrong. They believed that Killing a bunch of Americans was going to be their trip to their twisted version of heaven where they would get 72 virgins and and all that kind of stuff and have the favor of Allah.

So they were sincere but they were sincerely wrong and in the Heartbeat after they their heart beat its last when they flew into those Buildings they realized real quick that What they believed was a lie, but they thought it was true.

So they gave their lives for it. They were profoundly wrong. They're all too well aware of that as we speak right now. But here is what men will not do. No, man Will give his life for something that he knows to be false.

No man's going to do that so you have all of these men and Undoubtedly, there are some women too just from general persecution but you have all these all these people and who were eyewitnesses of Christ who saw him raised from the dead with their own two eyes and They gave their lives for Christ.

Nobody would have done that if they did not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead. So why did they believe Jesus was raised from the dead because they saw him raised from the dead. That's why that is why and Remember Acts chapter 5 Gamaliel When he was standing before the Sanhedrin and he talked about Thutis how Thutis rose up and about 400 men joined up with him.

Then Judas of Galilee rose up, you know drew away some people after him he too perished and all who followed him were scattered. Well when Thutis and Judas of Galilee died They didn't come back and their followers scattered.

If Jesus had died and not come back to life the same thing would have happened to his followers. They would have scattered too They would not have endured Persecution at the hands of the Jews and the Romans and yet they did they certainly would not have gone to dare to their deaths.

And yet they did so overwhelming evidence that Jesus was bodily raised from the dead. Now listen as Joe asks Wesley if there are any credible rebuttals to the resurrection.

No Ancient Denial of the Resurrection

So we have an account of the resurrection. Do we have an account of the denial of the resurrection. Is there an Historical record of him just dying. And this like a refutal or rebuttal rather to what they're saying.

No, the only ones from the ancient world that deny his resurrection are groups that come on afterwards that sometimes are sometimes are described as Gnostics and They're not necessarily just denying it for the reasons we might think they were.

They're denying it because they have incorporated ideas of Pagan philosophy where they believe that the spiritual is good and the physical is bad. So if Jesus was crucified he if so, let me back up if Jesus is God He cannot have a physical body.

So they deny that he actually had a physicality to him. This is sometimes called docetism because docane in Greek means to seem. So these groups that we describe as the docetics. They are denying that Jesus had a physical body.

He only seemed to have a physical body and they they wrote documents later on. So the Gospel of Peter which comes around in, you know Second third fourth centuries are is being written and it has Jesus kind of chilling on the cross.

Because he's not really physical because he's divine and physical entities don't have physical bodies so we don't actually get like a concrete denial of his resurrection in that way until you get things like the Gospel of Barnabas in the Middle Ages which is a.

It's actually the document that Billy brought up to me in the conversation We had is the evidence that Jesus was never crucified the Gospel of Barnabas. Gospel of Barnabas is 15th century. It paraphrases Dante's Inferno.

It's not an ancient document.

So and of course, there are none. Wesley is right. There are no credible refutations to the bodily resurrection of Jesus. And dear friends as I said the bodily resurrection of Christ is the most well attested event in All of ancient history and this is what it comes down to.

If Jesus was raised from the dead Then he was exactly who he claimed to be God in human flesh. He was not just the latest religious leader to come down the pike. He was not just a Theological flash in the pan guy gained some followers and then faded away like Thutis and Judas of Galilee.

No.

Jesus is Different he is God in human flesh. And as the God-man He has a claim on My life and on your life and on everyone's. We've got to make a decision about what we believe about Jesus Christ. Now watch as the subject of Jordan Peterson.

Comes up.

Jordan Peterson and the Resurrection as Morality Tale

I mean guys that you're friends with right like the Jordan Peterson's and the Douglas Murray's of the world or you know. The Tom Holland's not the spider-man actor the historian who talk about this stuff.

I think I really like the way that Jordan Peterson articulates it. But I think he misses the forest for the trees. How so in that he sees Jesus as an archetype. Mmm, and I don't think actually even Jesus gives you the opportunity to see him as the archetype.

Because I I both I've this love-hate relationship with Peterson stuff because he's he seems to get So much right where he walks up to the line, but he doesn't want to cross over and is the crossover.

You think connected to a life in academia? No, what do you think it is?

I I wonder and I'd love to talk to him about this. Like how do you Remedy this issue that because he seems to think it that the concept of Jesus as an example is more important than the actual flesh and blood First century itinerant Jewish preacher who was crucified and rose from the dead physically.

Which is the claim of the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament that that's that's an example for us to look on and live.

By.

But I I actually think that Jesus condemns moralism and Ultimately what I see Peterson doing is looking at Jesus as a moral example. And if Jesus is nothing but a moral example, then you can save yourself and you don't actually need a Savior.

Bingo, so Jordan Peterson many of you have seen clips of him talking about he clearly has an interest in the Bible, he clearly understands that the Bible is not a Normal book there's something different.

There's something supernatural about the Bible. I think I've even seen him post graphics of all of the cross references in Scripture and he is he is Amazed and astonished at the unity of Scripture how it could be written, you know over a period of 1 ,500 years and 40 different authors and all that and have this and it just a cohesiveness and a unity.

That just really cannot be explained purely from a human standpoint. Secular standpoint if the Bible is something different. Yeah, I think he definitely understands there is a supernatural element to it.

But but Jordan Peterson is Not convinced of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. He thinks that the importance about the resurrection is just this Morality tale that Jesus was just kind of an example. To us, you know some moral story moral underlying truth to these stories and the historicity of these stories is not really what is important, but that is false dear friends that is that is a soul damning thing to Believe let me let's go to 1st Corinthians chapter 15 beginning of verse 12 Paul writes.

Now if Christ is preached that he has been raised from the dead. How do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead not even Christ has been raised and if Christ has not been raised Then our preaching is in vain.

Your faith also is in vain. Dear friends if if Christ has not been bodily raised from the dead Then our faith is in vain. It's Worthless it, you know. Doesn't matter that you think there's some morality tale or some Relative, you know moralism there.

No if Christ has not been raised from the dead Paul says your faith is in vain, and I think he would know because he was an eyewitness of Jesus Raised from the dead. Now, let's go back to it verse 15.

Moreover, we are even found to be false witnesses of God. Because we bore witness against God that he raised Christ whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised not even Christ has been raised and if Christ has not been raised your faith is Worthless you are still in your sins.

Dear friends if Christ has not been raised from the dead. Our faith is worthless and we are still in our sins dead in trespasses in sins. The resurrection of Christ has no meaning has no power outside of the bodily resurrection of Christ and I think and I hope and pray that Joe Rogan is He's really wrestling with these things.

I mean he clearly Has an interest and wants to know the truth of it and I'll be praying for him. Now I want to show you one final clip from this interview in the ancient world. Nope.

Nobody really had that big of a problem with these kind of supernatural claims. More the more of the kind of skepticism.

Was why you would worship a crucified individual to begin with. Wow, so they were less surprised that he was resurrected.

Or or. That you would you would worship a crucified.

Like teacher was just seen as silly because it's so humiliating to be crucified. Yeah.

Yeah, and and that like a God would let himself go through this right? Like what?

What do you what are you talking about? And there is the question? Is it not why worship a man who was crucified. Why worship a God who would allow himself to be? crucified. Difference here is why.

The.

To throw back word out there why the hypostatic union of Christ is so vitally important. Why we have a right Christology. Why. Why it's so important to have a right understanding of Christ that Jesus Was one person with two distinct natures.

He was truly God and he was Truly man the God man. And apart from being the God man, then the crucifixion of Jesus has no meaning. When we sin we have we sin against God who was of infinite value infinite worth.

In sinning against an infinite God requires an infinite Transgression and No one ought to pay that penalty. But man. No one can pay that penalty but God. Okay, I want to say that again. I don't want you to miss that.

When we sin we sin against God of who is of infinite value and infinite worth. No one should pay that penalty. Except man. No one can pay that penalty.

Except.

God hence.

The God.

Man Jesus willingly Laid down his life on the cross. You see the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is not just some morality tale. No that negates the whole thing. If you believe that we cannot earn our favor With God just by doing some piddling little good works and you know doing some nice things for people and you know cutting some elderly couples yard.

You know or helping little ladies across the street doing that. We're not going to earn God's favor with that. To think that we could earn the favor of God by working our way into heaven is to Woefully misunderstand what sin is woefully misunderstand who God is.

We have sinned against God of infinite value and the punishment of that transgression is also infinite and No one deserves to pay that penalty except man. No one can pay that penalty except God and so God sent his son Jesus Christ to this earth truly God truly man one person with two distinct natures and Jesus willingly gave his life on the cross and on the cross our sins were imputed to him counted towards him and God treated his own son as though he were a sinner even though he was not God.

God poured out his wrath that burns against the sins of his people poured it out on his son in his son because he is truly man and truly God could pay that penalty and Jesus drank in every drop of the full undiluted fury of God's wrath.

This perfect person Offered his perfect life as a perfect sacrifice to perfectly satisfy the perfect wrath of God. Died on the cross and on the third day Bodily raised from the dead proving himself to be Who he said he was God and human flesh.

And if you will come to Christ empty-handed Trusting him and him alone for your salvation lay your works down. They will profit you nothing. The Bible says your works are as filthy rags before a thrice.

Holy God lay them down. But if you will come to Christ and trust him what he accomplished for you on the cross. You will be saved. You will be saved. You will pass from death to life and Finally dear ones.

I'll end on a one final cautionary tale. Because of the celebrity of Joe Rogan a Lot of people are real excited. Oh, maybe Joe Rogan is going to get saved. I hope and pray that he does and I literally will pray that.

But.

Does God need Joe Rogan?

No.

God does not need Joe Rogan to save his people. God does not need Joe Rogan to Get the gospel out. I want to turn our attention real quickly to 1st Corinthians chapter 1 verse 26 Paul writes for consider your calling brothers that there were not many wise according to the flesh Not many mighty not many noble.

But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are.

Strong.

I've seen it all too often When a celebrity supposedly gets saved and Christians get all excited because so-and-so got saved, you know. Kanye West, you know, well see how that turned out. You know some celebrity got saved in that wonderful.

Oh, it'll be such a powerful witness for the gospel. Well. According to Scripture God doesn't choose many wise it doesn't choose many noble doesn't choose. Usually doesn't choose the the ones who are strong, but rather the weak.

So.

For Joe Rogan sake I hope and pray that he does get saved. But don't be too quick to jump on the Evangelical celebrity or celebrity turned Christian bandwagon or the evangelical celebrity bandwagon either for that matter.

But don't don't get too excited too quickly because we've seen this movie before when a celebrity supposedly gets saved and then with usually without.

Too much.

Time having passed they discredit the gospel by their actions. So I hope he does for himself. I hope he does. But. Is it any more miraculous when God saves a Famous person than when he saves someone down, you know route three and nowhere Kansas that nobody's ever heard of.