Historic Moment For Abolition & Exposing Pro-life Hypocrisy

ReformCon 2025 and the Call to Build After Cultural Collapse

We need to talk. It's been a rough ride. From a culture bent on burning itself down to attacks from within. But by the grace of God, we've been given a moment. A chance to make lasting changes. We can rebuild what's been torn down.

But we have to build with what will last. The gospel of the kingdom. This April, let's sit down. Let's talk about what matters. And together, we'll build something that lasts. ReformCon 2025. Tickets are limited.

Lord willing, we'll see you in Tucson.

Non-rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it.

Are you going to bark all day, little doggie?

Or are you going to bite? We're being delusional.

Delusional? Yeah. Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

It doesn't really hurt.

Is he hung up on me?

What? What?

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies. Disciples.

I got a bit of a jiggle, Nick.

That's a joke, pastor.

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord. Proverbs 17, 15. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Gospel Heard Around the World. This is Apologia Radio.

You can get more at ApologiaStudios .com. That's A-P-O-L-O-G-I-A-Studios .com. Also go to EndAbortionNow .com for more information there. That's Luke Thibert.

What up?

I'm Jeff, the Callman and Ninja. And that's Zachary Conover.

Hey, everyone.

Director of Communications for EndAbortionNow. Important show we have for you guys today. Quickly want to point everybody to ApologiaStudios .com. Don't forget to go there and sign up for all access. When you do, you get all kinds of great, amazing additional content.

And you participate with us in all this ministry, bringing the gospel around the world. Everything that we're doing, you're a part of this ministry with us. And so grateful for all of you who are all access with us.

When you go there, sign up for all access. Again, not only do you participate in this ministry with us, but you get all kinds of additional stuff, content, extended episodes of Collision. You get all the content we have with Eli Ayala on our Apologetics platform.

You get the after shows. You get Apologia Academy, stuff on the Book of Revelation, Covenant Theology, the Trinity Apologetics. It's all there for you guys. Lots and lots more being added. Our app is in production.

It is almost finished is what I understand. And so you're going to have an app that is much easier to use and easier to track where you were. Don't forget also, everybody, very important, you can get your free account for Bonson Yu, one of the greatest Christian philosophers and apologists in the history of the Christian church, Dr. Greg Bonson.

We've been entrusted with all of his life's work, seminary level education for free. All you have to do is sign up for Bonson Yu at ApologiaStudios .com and get to work. All right, so lots to talk about today.

I want to start the show off by telling everyone ReformCon is coming up, ReformCon 2025, Tucson, Arizona, end of April. ReformCon .org is where you go for all the deets and get your tickets. Make sure you guys get them soon.

We have limited seating, so get your tickets. Come meet us in Tucson. We have an amazing time plan for everybody. We like to do these conferences in a very special way. The last one we did was just absolutely epic, loved the time I had with everybody, and it was just a fulfilling, amazing time together.

It's not your normal Christian conference. You're not just going to be bombarded with talks to where you're exhausted by the end of the day. We have time to fellowship, time to hang out, time to party a little bit, and it's going to be great.

So Tucson, Arizona, the dates are again?

April 24th to 26th.

And ReformCon .org is where you go. We've got David Bonson, we've got Andrew Sandlin, we've got Joe Boot, we've got Douglas Wilson, James White, myself. These guys are all going to be there.

Toby J.

Yeah, lots of great, great stuff. Great weekend plan for everybody. Get your tickets. ReformCon .org. Put your hand in our hands. Meet us, say hi to us, and let's get out of the ashes. That's the title of the conference.

So lots to say here. I know everyone's getting on. Do me a favor, if you would. Share this episode.

Share this episode.

And the reason why is because we are getting closer and closer and closer to the abolition of abortion. You're going to find out what I mean by that in this episode. I'm not going to go into it right now, but just trust me when I say it means a lot.

It changes a lot when you get this conversation in front of more people. So please share this episode. We need to expose some things and give you some encouragement. There are some big things happening right now.

Everything is being transformed. And so please share the episode. I've got to announce, everybody, a couple things.

Hold on.

Sorry. I need to say some things about ReformCon.

Okay.

So we have some special promotions. I was hoping they were live right now, but they may not be until later today. But two things. One, like you said, the theme is Up from the Ashes. And we really want to be able to speak into the lives of a certain group of people.

Two groups of people, actually. One, being pastors. Two, being, since we're close to the border, and there's obviously some border issues right now. On Saturday, the last day on Saturday, we're going to have a workshop on biblical borders.

So the Bible and borders, I think, is what we're going to call it.

There's Bible borders.

A lot of Bs.

So we want our border agents. Let me back up. We're offering free entrance to border agents, immigration officers, first responders, and legislators. If you fall into any one of those categories, we'll have a special coupon code.

I believe it's going to be borders. Matthew is literally, I'm like, Matthew, text me quickly. And so we want you there. We want you there. We want to be able to help you understand this issue and be able to speak into that.

And there, he sent it to me just now. So border, that's the coupon code. And then also, I mentioned pastors. We really want pastors there. We're going to have a coupon code as well for pastors to get in.

We want you to bring your wives. We are working on a special thing to maybe have a little date night for you and your wife as well. So pastors, we want you there. We're going to get you in for free as well.

And so I believe the coupon, he's just taking forever to type this out. I believe the coupon code is going to be pastors.

Suspense is building, Matthew.

I know. So anyways, please, we want you there. We want you to come. We want you to bring your people. And we are announcing the after party too. It hasn't been up. It should be up today. It's the Oak and Ash after party on Friday night is what we're calling it.

Oak and Ash.

Or, yeah, Friday night. And we will have that. We'll have separate tickets for that where you can come hang out with us.

Yep.

So be looking for that.

By the way, happy birthday.

Oh, thank you.

Happy birthday to the bear.

Happy bear birthday.

How old are you now?

44.

44 years old.

Happy birds.

Thanks.

Happy birthday, Ernie.

All right, guys. Lots is happening right now. You've heard us announcing that across the country right now, we have bills of equal protection abolition happening. This is just one of the many ministries happening in Apologia Church, but it's an important one.

It's a vitally important one. And so we're in the first session of the year, and there are lots of bills going across the country. And so we are going to be announcing these over the weeks and telling everyone what's going on, how close we are, who you need to call, and what you can do if you're in this particular state.

So Dunahoo, Emory Dunahoo, I believe today or tomorrow, is dropping the bill for Georgia.

It's filed now.

It's filed in.

Okay.

It's definitely.

He's going to hear. Sorry.

No, it's okay. So that's officially filed. We're waiting for the hearing. We've got to get it plugged into the right committee, and then we're waiting for the hearing. And so we're going to be letting everyone know who you can contact, what you can do for Georgia.

I want to let you know also big news, HB 523 is filed in the state of Kentucky, equal protection in the state of Kentucky. Representative Richard White is heading that up, and we're going to be getting more co-sponsors on that, Lord willing, of course.

Good thing. It's looking very good for Kentucky. Ohio should be dropping very, very soon. That's Reardon McLean. And that's next couple of weeks that should be in. Just pray for hearing for that as well.

We also got word that in Alabama, we're going to have one bill of equal protection in both the House and the Senate in the state of Alabama. Ernie Yarbrough is running the House one on that one. Not quite sure who the Senate one is right now, but that's coming as well.

We have a bill in Indiana happening right now. Am I right about Missouri? Is it Missouri? Missouri is in. Idaho is in.

South Carolina.

Iowa is in. South Carolina is in. Texas is in.

Oklahoma.

Oklahoma is in, and all those states. So Oklahoma, get a hold of Dusty Devers, faithful, faithful man of God, running that, just doing a great job in the state of Oklahoma, and get a hold of him. So I'm going to be actually heading out to Austin next week.

If you're in Texas, come meet us. We need you there. It is so important that you show up to these things. I can't tell you what it does for the legislators to see the support and people rallying around a particular bill.

So next, Wednesday, 11 a .m., in Austin, Texas, at the Capitol, South Side, we're having a rally for money's bill in the state of Texas. And so come join us. If you're in Texas, you're like, I don't know if I should go.

The answer is yes, you should go. It's that important that you show up. Trust me, the legislators are moved by the audience and the constituency and the amount of people that are there in support of a particular bill.

You put the pressure, they know they have to move. And so that's happening on Wednesday, 11 a .m., next Wednesday, in Austin, at the Capitol, South Side. And that's what's coming up.

We also got Iowa's in.

Iowa's in, Representative Deacon.

Idaho's in, working on a pastors meeting in Idaho, looking like two weeks, I think. So we're trying to get that deal done. We'll announce it as soon as we have it.

Kansas also has a bill.

Yes.

Didn't want to forget that. I believe that's everything.

And forgive us, guys. There's so many, it's happening so fast, and it's constantly changing every day. So if we're forgetting, guys, we're behind you, we want to support you. Even if it's not a bill that we're directly involved in putting in, we want to support the bills of other faithful Christians that are happening across the country.

This is a work of the church, and so we're all in this together. All right, so great news. Great, great, great news. And that is that we had a bill in North Dakota. It was Representative Lori Van Winkle.

Love that name. And Lori Van Winkle got the bill into the state of North Dakota. It went first, of course, to the hearing stage, but the unique nature of how the legislature works, and it's different in every state, basically, in North Dakota is that every bill that goes through the hearing just has to go to the floor anyways.

And that's fantastic, by the way.

It really is.

That's really great. But so that's how it got to the floor. So as you guys know, we've said that we've struggled, all of us that are in this movement have really struggled, and that we'll get bills in.

So many bills have already happened, but they get killed or stopped or ignored before they can even get into a hearing or to a committee.

Stonewalled.

Stonewalled. And the pro-life establishment is responsible for killing every single one of these bills universally in every single state. It's not like sometimes they have. Every single time that a bill of equal protection for all humans from fertilization has happened in a state, it has been thwarted by, stopped by, and killed by the pro-life industry, the pro-life establishment, locally and nationally.

We're talking about red states.

Red states.

I mean, virtually all of them are red states. Republican supermajorities.

Pro-life dominant House or Senate.

Literally, North Dakota, everyone that spoke against it was from the pro-life industry.

There you go. And so what happened?

Planned Parenthood didn't even show up.

They didn't need to. Representative Lori Van Winkle, so faithful.

Lori, wow.

Great job.

She's great.

Wow, wow, wow.

We're going to play some of what Lori had to say on the floor yesterday, and let me just say she makes a lot of male pastors look bad.

Yeah, it's an indictment.

In terms of her courage and what she was willing to say and how direct she was, Lori Van Winkle officially has bigger balls than most evangelical pastors.

Somebody had to say it.

Someone had to say it.

That's being generous.

And so really, really thankful for you, Lori. Grateful for your courage, for your faithfulness, and for your boldness to speak the truth. I was at home yesterday doing work and listening to it live, and I don't know how many times I was yelling at the ceiling, saying, oh, praise God.

Oh, my goodness. I can't believe this is happening right now. My twins were like, I'm feeding my twins while I was screaming at the ceiling. They both were like, what's wrong with you, Dad? And so, okay.

I don't know what's going on. Sorry, somebody said in the chat, Planned Parenthood just deleted all their posts on Instagram.

That's weird.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Well, let's keep our eyes peeled for that.

Yeah.

So North Dakota. Now, I'm going to bring everyone into this, because I need to tell you the history just briefly so that you know what to be praising God for and thanking him for. And I hope this puts fire underneath you to join us, to join us.

And here it is. When we started this, there have been consistent faithful Christians doing this long before us. But I think the main focus for them over the last decades was we got to save these lives at the abortion mill.

Of course, we need to work on abolition and get that going. But we didn't have legislators courageous enough, consistent enough to actually put bills of abolition and equal protection in. Now, they started happening.

To my knowledge, the first one was because of Senator Joseph Silk in the state of Oklahoma, equal protection bill. And faithful Christians worked in Oklahoma hard. Joseph Silk, faithful, worked hard. And that bill was killed by Tony Lounger and the pro-life establishment in Oklahoma.

The legislature asked Tony, who was the vice president of National Rights to Life and the head of Oklahomans for Life, I think is what it's called. They asked him, because he's the head dude. How do you want us to vote on this bill, Tony?

And Tony told him not to pass it.

Killed the bill.

And so abolition was thwarted, equal protection was thwarted because of the pro-life establishment. There you go, first one.

Back when nobody knew what was going on, really. Lots changed.

We have a legislator that's going to put a bill of equal protection? And it was astonishing. And so, yeah, amazing.

That's what birthed the U .N.

And that's, by the way, the Christians that were fighting for that bill in Oklahoma were being consistent and faithful and bold, and they got what the pro-life establishment said you just can't get. And it was through faithfulness without compromise.

So all this bogus methodology of we just need to compromise, we can't just get all that we want, we can't just speak the truth, we can't just call it murder, we can't just work for abolition, nonsense.

And the Oklahoman Christians proved that.

They proved it.

After that, we were able to, and other Christians were able to get more bills of abolition. So many now at this point have lost count. We're talking about dozens of bills of abolition that have happened over the last decade.

Every single one of them killed by the pro-life establishment. The unique one where abolitionists from across the country joined together on was the bill that we were able to get in with Pastor Brian Gunter in Louisiana.

Got the bill into Louisiana. The bill goes to the hearing. It passes the hearing overwhelmingly, which was like, what? It happened?

Yeah.

Everyone's jaws were on the floor. What has God doing? It happened, and then we had all yes votes. All the yes votes that we needed a week before the bill went to the floor in Louisiana. All of them we needed.

In the House.

In the House. Enter Senator or Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, Louisiana Right to Life, and over 70 of the largest pro-life organizations across the country.

Enter them.

They convinced the all yes vote legislators to say no and change their votes. They did not want a bill of abolition and equal protection, and it was that letter given to our legislators in their hands walking around with it the day of the vote.

From National Right to Life, ERLC, Louisiana Right to Life. That was in their hands, and it was the excuse they had was, Mike Johnson told me not to pass this, and look at all these organizations all said they don't want equal protection.

And what for? The fatal flaw of the pro-life establishment. What is that? That they believe that though what's in the womb is fully human from fertilization,.

That all life is sacred,.

That we are uniquely created by God and worthy of protection, all of us. Although they say they believe that, for votes and donations, they want a protected class of killers. A protected class to be able to do this with impunity and immunity.

Our bills, by the way,.

Say nothing about gender or class.

Nothing.

It talks about conduct. All it says is what's in the womb is human from fertilization, and that all human life in this state will be given equal protection under the law.

That's basically the bill.

Who can argue with that? Isn't that what the pro-life establishment says.

That they believe?

Isn't that how they get their donations? Isn't that how they get their votes?

Yes.

But these pro-life establishment types and organizations came out and said that they do not want any legislator across America to pass a bill that would ever lead to the criminalization of the mother.

Which is to say, let's be honest about it, though many of them are, you know, a little trepidatious about saying the word murder, some of them will still say it. They still say, though it is murder in the unjustified taking of human life, the mother must be able to do it with impunity and immunity.

What's that mean? Impunity, no punitive nothing. No punishment at all. She must be able to do it without punishment, and she must be able to do it with the protection of the law. So when they write their bills, even bills that restrict abortions, they'll even say things like, in terms of criminalization, but this shall not, this shall not be applicable to the mother.

And so they killed our bill in Louisiana, and I want to just bring you into this. Though we were like, all of us, I mean, everybody was there. I mean, everybody was there. Everyone flew in and drove in to Louisiana for this unique moment.

They were like, guys, it passed the hearing. It's going to the floor.

We never had one go to the floor.

Everybody was there.

I mean, you name the organization, everyone from Texas, the guys from Abolition Is Rising. It was this really, truly amazing ecumenical moment. It really was.

It was glorious.

And the hall was filled that day with Christians from across the country singing songs to Jesus. Dusty Devers was there, right? I mean, it was just a big moment.

Rusty was there. Everybody was there.

And the only thing was, is that before you had, yes, absolutely, to the bill, and then, okay, Mike Johnson says, don't pass it, and everyone says, don't pass it. So that day, it was a sad moment. You have Danny McCormick, courageous man, courageous follower of Jesus,.

Lover of these children,.

On the floor that day in Louisiana, and though a week before, everybody's on his side, now everyone's turned on him. And so it was Danny McCormick against the world. I mean, everybody there that was even pro-life is lying about the bill, challenging the bill, telling everyone not to pass the bill.

Alan Seabum.

Yeah, he lied big time.

Is lying about the bill. He's repeating lies that were refuted a day before in a private conversation with me. He knew they were false. He said them anyways, because they were really strong emotional arguments.

And it was Danny McCormick against the world. And the bill died in Louisiana. And it was Danny standing there, like, just dumbfounded, like he looked like a deer.

In the headlights,.

Like, what just happened? To see everyone turn on him. Bunch of Judases. Then, yesterday in North Dakota, the bill gets through the hearing,.

Goes to the floor.

Lori Van Winkle. So consistent. And then, she had a lot more legislators saying yes with her and arguing on the floor against the arguments against the bill. They were refuting the arguments against the bill.

Somebody would speak up, try to refute the bill or argue against the bill. Somebody else will stand up in opposition and say, ah, that's actually not true. And they would argue against them and show that what you're saying is not true.

I couldn't believe what was happening. I'm watching the hearing and one legislator after another is saying vote yes on this bill, go green on this bill. And they were refuting the arguments against the bill.

This has never happened. When McCormick was there on the floor, he's getting slaughtered and everybody's against him. Now, Lori is there and she's got support.

Of other legislators all around her.

Arguing for the bill saying vote for this bill and they're being consistent. It's a powerful moment. So what was the end tally yesterday?

It was

77 to 16, I believe.

77 nos to 16 yays. But that was 16 yeses.

Right.

That was 16 yeses. We had 16 other legislators on the floor that day arguing on behalf of the Bill of Equal Protection. That's never happened before. It's a historic moment. It's a historic moment.

And arguing explicitly from the Lordship of Christ.

Yes.

Scripture, faithfulness, consistency,.

God's law,.

Telling magistrates that they'll be responsible to God for how they conduct themselves today. I just, I can't recall. I mean, this is not the norm. I think is my point.

Van Winkle.

Having Christian legislators that are willing to stand on their convictions.

To say Jesus.

To say this is what God commands you to do.

Right.

And that was, sorry, that's the main point I want to make too beyond the fact that now we've got legislators to the tune of 16 putting their careers on the line.

For the sake of these children.

Saying yes, yes, absolutely. And then arguing against the bootleg arguments against the bill. Never happened before. But then the other thing is you need to watch this hearing.

Because,.

And I'll tell you where you can find it in a moment here, because this was a moment where you have on the floor of the house someone pointing people to scripture, God's law, and calling the legislators to repentance.

Towards Jesus Christ. That is how it is done. And this, what you're seeing, what you're about to watch right now, this didn't get here because of compromise and soften the edges and let's stand on neutral ground.

No, what happened in North Dakota yesterday and now is growing and is going to happen across the country and this is going to lead to the abolition of abortion happened because Christians said no compromise.

Jesus says you're either with me or you're against me. And so I'm going to live like that.

Christians, the church did this. The church did this.

Through faithfulness, not compromise.

So what you're going.

To witness right now is as a result of the faithfulness of the church speaking the truth and this is what it looks like when something's being abolished. So people talk about incrementalism versus immediatism.

You guys have heard me say I think that that's a false distinction. I don't think that's fully expressive of what's really wrong there. But when we talk about like increments of wins, we're going to go with the increments of faithfulness.

Not unfaithfulness, not injustice. So I would see this as a pretty significant increment forward towards justice and victory because it's with faithfulness.

It's true progress.

True progress.

Yeah, it's demanding the actual thing to end and then that process repeating itself over and over and over and before you know it, the slave trade is abolished.

That's right.

And then slavery is abolished and then...

Yeah.

So I would just say just to bring people kind of into the understanding of North Dakota, abortion is illegal in North Dakota similar to Louisiana except for the mother. Right? So the mother can have an abortion at will.

So a lot of people are going across the border to Minneapolis or into Minnesota to have an abortion. And so that's kind of the where the things are as a state. And it was interesting because just so you understand how I'm doing this and quote pro-life North Dakota is as a legislature.

I think it was two or three bills before this on the house. A guy tried to introduce a 15-week ban and it got slaughtered. It was like 90-something to five which was awesome to see. I was like, wow, that's fantastic.

But then they get to our bill, right, and voted like some complete knuckleheads. And so what was interesting and if you're able to see the hearing and then how it kind of carried into the house floor, this really was about IVF.

That was all the arguments was about IVF. That and criminalizing the mother. Those were the two main things that they, the two main cards they played which is really interesting because it was all false.

Like I was, I was like yelling like, lies! Like when there's, you know, like this is not true. And what was unfortunate in the hearing, in the committee hearing, our people went first and then the opposed went second and so they were able to just spew all this nonsense and all these lies about the bill and then they weren't able to correct it.

So I think that's why it got there. It was like 11 to one, I believe, do not pass in the hearing. Thankfully, a lot of that stuff was corrected on the floor in the house. But anyways, that's just kind of the background context of where things are at with this bill.

Yeah.

All right, everyone. So I'm gonna start with playing for everybody.

Lori's starting.

Testimony about the bill.

Right.

Here we go.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and members of the assembly. I rise today to implore you to recognize who we stand before every single floor session and listen to prayers in the name of our almighty God and Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

And we pledge allegiance to a flag, one nation under God. We believe in morality. We believe that our nation was founded on Godly principles. And you heard the previous speaker say that,.

Well,.

Maybe people didn't vote for this because of some unknown. This, that or the next thing.

But.

All of those concerns were addressed and not a single one of them remains valid to continue to allow the murdering of innocent pre-born lives. This bill closes a loophole in North Dakota abortion law that keeps self-managed pill-induced abortions legal.

The type of abortion is still happening in North Dakota without HB 1373. Up to about 220 North Dakota pre-born babies are still dying every single year. How can we say we're pro-life and still continue to allow that loophole and that provision because we want to say,.

Well,.

We can't criminalize the mother. I realize for 52 years we've been lied to and convinced that abortion is acceptable. Murdering the pre-born lives of children by the mother.

Is,.

Has blanket immunity. But good God, in what other case in our law do we give blanket immunity to a class of people to murder another class of people without penalty even if they are 12, 25, 95. I'd feel sorry for my grandpa to murder somebody.